Towing a 2CV / Lomax

[Filbyflyer]

Passengers??? This is not a car, this is now a trailer!

The Construction and Use Regulations define all sorts of weights - Axle weight, Design weight, Kerbside weight, Gross weight, Maximum gross weight, etc. But in regard to the 750 kg limit on unbraked trailers they say:

Trailers of which the sum of the axle weight does not exceed 750 kg

and axle weight is defined:

axle weight

in relation to each axle of a vehicle, the sum of the weights transmitted to the
road surface by all the wheels of that axle,

Therefore the 750 Kg represents the actual weight of the "trailer" as towed. It has nothing to do with GVW. You can put the luggage, tools, spare wheel, seats and anything else detachable in the towing car if necessary to reduce the weight!

[Tom Rae]

The GVW is used to determine the weight when a vehicle is towed on an A frame so it is important from a regulatory standpoint.
Tom

[Filbyflyer]

The GVW is used to determine the weight when a vehicle is towed on an A frame so it is important from a regulatory standpoint.

Hi Tom

Can you tell me where that comes from? I can't find it in the Construction and Use Regs.

David

[Tom Rae]

David, to be honest I can't remember where I read it but it probably accompanies the a frame criteria rather than trailer regs. Tom

[Filbyflyer]

That makes sense. Obviously an A frame has to be designed for the maximum loaded weight but (as I read it) the limit in the regs of 750kg for trailers without brakes refers to the actual weight as towed.

David

[pulhamdown]

Passengers??? This is not a car, this is now a trailer!

Passengers are the equivalent of the load in the trailer. Cars, trailers, etc, all have design weights. That's why you need the GVW of the car being towed. With a trailer you add the weight of the trailer empty to the amount it has been designed to carry, and that gives you the GVW. So as Tom says, it is unlikely that a Lomax, or any other three wheelers other than a Pembleton will come in with a gross vehicle weight of under 750 kgs.

Colin

[pulhamdown]

Therefore the 750 Kg represents the actual weight of the "trailer" as towed. It has nothing to do with GVW. You can put the luggage, tools, spare wheel, seats and anything else detachable in the towing car if necessary to reduce the weight!

No, it has everything to do with GVW. The design weight is what matters. You can put anything you like from the car into the towing vehicle, but it makes not a jot of difference to the GVW. This is stipulated by the manufacturer, whether it be a trailer, kit car or truck. The GVW should be noted on a plate fitted by the manufacturer or in our case the builder. Since Lomax no longer exist as a manufacturer, it may be hard to come up with this information.

Colin

[Filbyflyer]

I think you are missing the point of my reasoning. The 750kg unbraked limit relates to trailers, not cars being towed. The argument, based on the DfT's own advice not,e is that a car on an A frame is to be treated as a trailer, not as a car being towed. The regs make no reference to the "design weight" of the trailer, only the "axle weight" which can only be the combined weight of the a-frame and car as towed.

I am basing this on the DfT's understanding in their advice note that a car on an a frame is legally a trailer. Of course it is possible to argue that "proper" trailers are plated with "maximum gross weight". If this plate says "under 750kg" it doesn't need brakes - but if it is overloaded to more than 750kg that would be illegal because the axle weight as towed would be more than the 750kg. With a car and a frame combination you have created an informal trailer which I suppose you could the (if you want) get a plate issued as under 750kg. Then if the combined weight of the a frame and car (stripped down if necessary) is less than 750kg it would be legal. Again - the GVP of the whole car is not relevant.

David

[Tom Rae]

David, when a car is towed on an A frame it is GVW that determines the weight.

Tom

[pulhamdown]

I think you are missing the point of my reasoning. The 750kg unbraked limit relates to trailers, not cars being towed.
David

With respect, your reasoning does not hold any water in the eyes of the law. A towed car becomes a trailer in law, therefore is subject to trailer rules. Therefore it's the GVW which is the relevant weight.

Colin