Ignition/ starter switch problem

[Portuguy]

The push button and key ingnition switch sometimes turns itself on just after the battery cut- out switch is turned on .Sometimes also after turning and releasing the key it continues to turn over the engine . Dont know its origin but i cant open it up so easily . The cast security ring at the front doesnt turn to match up with what looks like release slots .Its a fairly sturdily made unit of about 4cm diameter casing with the protruding push button above the barrel.The key has MNR 11 .,smooth side to the right. All my old Union keys have left side smooth and right side grooved.
The push button still has a fairly strong spring to it.The barrel is a bit floppy.The zinc outer facing ring is fragile and wont stand gripping in a vice.There are 3 brass terminals at the back one copper rivet and the barrel security washer / fixing . Ive found one or two largish replica ignit.switches on line which combine light switches but not push button start.The normal"Race- kit 'safety cut out and warning light etc is a bit modern looking and forms an aluminium rectangle in shape but maybe a possible option .Should i still try to open up the original and see whats happening inside and try to repair it ,as it fits the part well?
Cheers Aidan

[Paul]

Hi Portuguy,

If it was me, I'd throw away the faulty pushbutton and key ingnition switch. Even if you manage a repair, the switch will most likely be worn and fail again. I would fit either a new key ignition switch with a separate new pushbutton starter switch, or a new four-position key ignition and starter switch combined. If the aperture in the instrument panel is too big, mount the two switches or the single switch in an aluminium panel that can be attached to the instrument panel. I don't know what your instrument panel looks like so you'll have to decide on the aesthetics of the appearance.

There are plenty of key ignition switches availabe on-line; a motorcycle or car type will do the job. You can always fit a momentary-action toggle switch instead of a pusbutton switch.

Hope that helps.
Paul

[Portuguy]

Hi Paul , Good New Year to you,
many thanks for your reply and advice . I got hold of a new On - Off electric wheelchair switch with Added ,"lights " position . After fitting this ,exactly the same thing happened when turning key back to' On' position . The engine kept turning a few times so i switched off the emergency cut out ,which works fine .
Its seems like theres another circuit bypassing the switch, left over from when this car had two engines. Theres still wiring for that , some of it is cut back but plenty remaining. The car has an Austin Mini- type fuse box with loads of terminals and maybe theres a wire that should be disconnected or is touching another, there , or somewhere else ? .However its just a recent fault which id like solved before i fit the brand new battery.All other electrics work fine ,.
Id call it a " stammer start"!
Cheers Aidan

[Geoff Ryall-Harvey]

I would buy a new loom and rewire. Langy's Rod Shop do a basic Rebel Wiring loom for £100. In the end it will be easier than trying to fix an original Citroën loom that might be 40 years old.

[Ken Hanna]

Given that nothing on the existing loom has been altered, another possibility would be that the starter motor has developed a fault, especially if it's one that can occur if it hasn't seen much use for a while?
I'd be checking the starter motor for a 'sticky' solenoid before diving into a rewire...
Ken

[Geoff Ryall-Harvey]

He says that it previously had two engines, so unless it's Safari with one engine removed then the loom must have been altered in some way. Most specials (and a lot of 2CVs) are a mess of egg crate connectors, scotchloks, insulating tape and bits of household wiring.

[Portuguy]

Thanks Ken and Geoff, i liked the description of the wiring , very accurate . Before testing with meter etc i fitted the new , New , battery which id pre-charged the day before,turned the key and bingo it started up first kick on a damp morning and with no sign of starter over- running by itself . What a nice surprise . Any explanation ?The vehicle gets very little use and stands for long periods. I guess the starter brushes and segments could benefit from a clean up . Glad i didnt dismantle the solenoid yet. I ve been going over the wiring for months now and its much better than it was . Made sure its protected from hot spots and well secured with ties which i make any excuse to use. .The info about the harness for sale is useful to know .
Do the starter contacts inside the solenoid have the possibility to " weld up " and become pitted and cant release( causing overrun ),Some types can be carefully rotated 180 degs . through the partially open casing,to have a new surface ?As in VW solenoids.?
As long as its starting normally and the battery keeps up , i should he glad and get some miles in?
Many thanks , theres useful info for others there to benefit . Is mine the only special with a semi -
permanent mouse trap on board?
Regards and best wishes
Aidan

[Ken Hanna]

Aidan,
as suggested earlier, a combination of lack of use plus maybe corrosion or dirt on the starter motor spindle, preventing the starter bendix from fully retracting?
There are other ailments which befall cars that have fallen out of use, such as a 'lazy' accelerator pump, although most are cured once the vehicle is back in regular use.
It might be worthwhile to remove the starter motor and give it a bit of a clean and some fettling...

Ken

and with no sign of starter over- running by itself . What a nice surprise. Any explanation? The vehicle gets very little use and stands for long periods.
Aidan

[Rob A]

Hello; and a Happy New Year to all members of the club and their families.

I don't know if this is related to your problem or not. I like to start my Pembleton every two or three days due to the fact that if I don't, it seems to take for ever for the thing to fire up.

Good luck with the diagnostics.

Best wishes Rob A. 1400 J.

[Portuguy]

Good idea Rob . Ive recently being doing this start up procedure.
Cheers Aidan