Clutch Collapse
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Re: Clutch Collapse
Hasten to add that when I say short shaft, I mean the short spline shaft, not the early (I believe) short shat that appears not to have a pilot bearing journal.
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Ken Hanna
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:30 pm
- CSC Membership Number: 724
- Country: UK
- Region: North Yorkshire
Re: Clutch Collapse
Paul,
a couple of things which are usually worth doing when putting a gearbox of unkown provenance into service.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@N06/3278970065/
& https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... otostream/
The former is particularly effective with a gearbox which is noisy in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear but quiet in 4th gear.
Bearing Boys are a good source for oilite bearings, http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/?catid=115 ... &att3=16mm
At least you won't need to 'hydraulically' remove the old one...
Ken
a couple of things which are usually worth doing when putting a gearbox of unkown provenance into service.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@N06/3278970065/
& https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... otostream/
The former is particularly effective with a gearbox which is noisy in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear but quiet in 4th gear.
Bearing Boys are a good source for oilite bearings, http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/?catid=115 ... &att3=16mm
At least you won't need to 'hydraulically' remove the old one...
Ken
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Ken Hanna
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:30 pm
- CSC Membership Number: 724
- Country: UK
- Region: North Yorkshire
Re: Clutch Collapse
Almost forgot, a photograph can be much more useful than pages of rambling...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... zw4-5ZKzrz
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... w4-5ZKzrz/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... zw4-5ZKzrz
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... w4-5ZKzrz/
Re: Clutch Collapse
Help required again.
I assembled the engine and replacement gearbox with a new Valeo clutch kit this afternoon. I put a 6 mm thick spacer behind the release bearing to bring the release lever rearward so that in the event of cable failure, the release lever would not hit the pressure plate.
Problem 1. On manually rotating the engine in short steps, I found the release bearing rotates with the pressure plate, i.e. there is no clearance between the fingers of the pressure plate and the release bearing. That's easily remedied by getting rid of the spacer, however, the release lever is so close to the pressure plate that removing the spacer would allow the release arm to travel forward sufficient to hit the pressure plate.
The photo shows from below the replacement gearbox with a new Valeo clutch kit. The photo doesn't really show the limited clearance between the release lever and the pressure plate, but it was a difficult shot to take.
In case there was a problem with the replacement gearbox, I decided to check out the original gearbox against the new clutch kit. Engine out again, then assembled to the original gearbox with the new release bearing, but no spacer. Similar problem, there is clearance (as you’d expect with the spacer omitted), but the release lever touches the pressure plate. Pushing the release lever rearward until the release bearing touches the pressure plate only produces the smallest of clearance. Is this correct?
All parts and their assembly appears to be correct, but I can’t believe Citroen engineers would have designed the clutch layout with such disasterous potential. I daren't spin the engine until a clutch cable is installed. The photo below shows the new clutch assembly on the flywheel.
The photo below shows the damaged release lever in the original gearbox.
Assuming all the parts are correct, I’m tempted to grind away that part of the release lever that would foul the pressure plate.
Anyone got any helpful advice or can identify something that’s not correct.
I assembled the engine and replacement gearbox with a new Valeo clutch kit this afternoon. I put a 6 mm thick spacer behind the release bearing to bring the release lever rearward so that in the event of cable failure, the release lever would not hit the pressure plate.
Problem 1. On manually rotating the engine in short steps, I found the release bearing rotates with the pressure plate, i.e. there is no clearance between the fingers of the pressure plate and the release bearing. That's easily remedied by getting rid of the spacer, however, the release lever is so close to the pressure plate that removing the spacer would allow the release arm to travel forward sufficient to hit the pressure plate.
The photo shows from below the replacement gearbox with a new Valeo clutch kit. The photo doesn't really show the limited clearance between the release lever and the pressure plate, but it was a difficult shot to take.
- DSCN5380 resize.jpg (41.41 KiB) Viewed 11834 times
All parts and their assembly appears to be correct, but I can’t believe Citroen engineers would have designed the clutch layout with such disasterous potential. I daren't spin the engine until a clutch cable is installed. The photo below shows the new clutch assembly on the flywheel.
- DSCN5383 resize.JPG (57.2 KiB) Viewed 11834 times
- DSCN5389 resize.jpg (69.23 KiB) Viewed 11834 times
Anyone got any helpful advice or can identify something that’s not correct.
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billdavies
- Posts: 79
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- Country: UK
- Region: Ayrshire KA7
- Location: Ayrshire
Re: Clutch Collapse
Paul,
not a Good Idea to reduce the depth of the operating arm as the strength is derived from the depth.
Better to find the cause of the minimalist clearance and rectify to create a gap
regards Bill D
not a Good Idea to reduce the depth of the operating arm as the strength is derived from the depth.
Better to find the cause of the minimalist clearance and rectify to create a gap
regards Bill D
Own design and build of trike,2CV powered and transmission
Re: Clutch Collapse
An update on the clutch situation.
The spare gearbox is in the car together with the engine and the new coil-spring type clucth kit. I've placed a 25 mm ID x 3.2 mm thick washer behind the release bearing. I found this thickness gives me a gnat's cock clearance between the release lever and the hairpin springs on the pressure plate when the clutch cable is not fitted. The 3.2 mm thick washer is free to move on the on the sleeve for the gearbox input shaft, but, to prevent chatter, I've stuck the washer to the gearbox face with silicon sealant. I didn't modify the release lever of the spare gearbox by grinding away part of the front face; when I looked at the damaged release lever, the amount of metal that had been scraped away was negligable.
Prior to installing the 3.2 mm washer, I checked and measured just about everything. The flywheel is correctly installed, as is the clutch and the gearbox. Nothing is in the wrong place or misaligned as far as I can see.
Anyway, with the drive shafts disconnected, I fired up the engine and tried all the gears. All good and one happy bunny
Fingers crossed, the clutch problem is resolved. Just got to try this spare gearbox out under load and see if it behaves itself. I also did the peening mod on the gearbox to prevent the gearbox 'unwinding'.
The spare gearbox is in the car together with the engine and the new coil-spring type clucth kit. I've placed a 25 mm ID x 3.2 mm thick washer behind the release bearing. I found this thickness gives me a gnat's cock clearance between the release lever and the hairpin springs on the pressure plate when the clutch cable is not fitted. The 3.2 mm thick washer is free to move on the on the sleeve for the gearbox input shaft, but, to prevent chatter, I've stuck the washer to the gearbox face with silicon sealant. I didn't modify the release lever of the spare gearbox by grinding away part of the front face; when I looked at the damaged release lever, the amount of metal that had been scraped away was negligable.
Prior to installing the 3.2 mm washer, I checked and measured just about everything. The flywheel is correctly installed, as is the clutch and the gearbox. Nothing is in the wrong place or misaligned as far as I can see.
Anyway, with the drive shafts disconnected, I fired up the engine and tried all the gears. All good and one happy bunny
Fingers crossed, the clutch problem is resolved. Just got to try this spare gearbox out under load and see if it behaves itself. I also did the peening mod on the gearbox to prevent the gearbox 'unwinding'.